-- Posted by Soprano on 1:11 am on Dec. 21, 2001 During recent years the Kurdish question has reappeared, more intensely than before, on the international agenda. For years, this question has been of fundamental concern to the countries of the region, and it has led to extensive internal controversies and economic and social crises. In order to further an understanding of the Kurdish question in its present dimensions, a summary of its historical and geographical background is necessary. Language, Religion, and History The Kurds are, together with the Arabs, Persians, and Armenians, one of the most ancient peoples of the Near East. The country they inhabit is called Kurdistan. The Kurds have their own language, Kurdish. Kurdish is a member of the Indo-European family of languages; like Persian, Afghan, and Beluchi, it is one of the Iranian languages. Kurdish is unrelated to the Arabic or Turkish languages.   Literary works have been written in the Kurdish language since the tenth century A.D. Kurdish is a lively and rich language that has managed to survive despite all the oppression and bans to which it has been exposed. There are hundreds of poets, writers, and researchers writing in Kurdish. Many dictionaries and grammar books have been written for the Kurdish language. Kurdish folklore also has a very rich tradition.   Over time, various dialects have arisen within the Kurdish language. The most widely disseminated dialect is Kurmanci. It is spoken by about 90% of the Kurds in Turkey, in Iranian and Iraqi Kurdistan in the northern areas near the Turkish border, and by the Syrian Kurds - that is, by about 60% of all Kurds. The Sorani dialect is spoken by about 25% of the Kurds. This dialect is spoken in the middle and southern regions of Iranian and Iraqi Kurdistan. Zazaki is a third dialect, which is spoken in certain regions of Turkish Kurdistan. In the southernmost parts of Kurdistan, Gorani and other dialects are spoken.   The great majority of Kurds, about 75%, are Sunni Moslems; about 15% are Alevite Moslems. The Alevites are in the majority in the northern and western areas of Turkish Kurdistan and in the Chorasan region of Iran. In Iran and Irak there exist other religious groups such as Shiite Kurds (Feyli) and the Ehlihak ("the people of God"), who are closely related with the Alevites. In the various parts of Kurdistan, especially in the region where the borders of Turkey, Iran, and Irak meet and in Armenia, there are Kurdish Yezidi communities. In earlier times, the Yezidi faith was a widely shared religious orientation. Its roots go back to Zoroastrianism. Finally, in the middle regions of Kurdistan there are small groups of Christianity.   Kurds have played a significant role in the history of this region since its early epochs. A great deal of information on this can be found in numerous Greek, Roman, Arab, and Armenian sources. According to them, the Kurds founded several important states during the Islamic epoch between the tenth and thirteenth centuries, such as Shaddâdiden, Marvâniden, and Ayyûbiden - as well as in the distant past. Sultan Salahaddin (Salâh al-Dîn), the founder of the Ayyûbid state, which included Egypt, Syria, and Kurdistan, played a particularly significant role in history.   The Turks, whose roots are in Middle Asia, migrated to Anatolia via Iran after the eleventh century and founded the Selchuk and subsequently the Ottoman states. For a long time, Kurdistan was the theater of military clashes between the Ottoman and the Persian empires. During this period, the Kurdish princes sided first with one side, then the other, thus maintaining their autonomy. But in the year 1638, Kurdistan was officially divided between these two states in the Treaty of Kasri Shirin. From that time until the mid-nineteenth century, both states made armed attacks on the Kurdish princedoms in order to destroy them.   The Kurds' struggle against these two great states took on a nationalistic character at the beginning of the nineteenth century. Kurdish princes such as Bedirkhan and Yazdânsher, as well as religious leaders such as Sheik Ubeydullah, fought for the unity and independence of Kurdistan, but they were defeated.   After World War I, the Ottoman Empire became past history: new states arose on its former territory. According to the Treaty of Sèvres, which was signed on 10 August 1920, the state of Kurdistan was also to be established in the region. But this intention was not subsequently implemented. In the Treaty of Lausanne, signed on 24 July 1923, that part of Kurdistan which had been part of the Ottoman Empire was carved up again. Part of it was included in the British and French Mandates, where Syria and Iraq later came into being. The largest part of Kurdistan remained within the state borders of the Republic of Turkey, which had been founded on the ruins of the Ottoman Empire.   The Ottoman and the Persian Empires, which had divided up Kurdistan between themselves, did not question the existence of the Kurdish people at any time. The Republic of Turkey also initially defined its new borders as the "borders of the Misak-i Milli (National Pact), which include the areas settled by the Turkish and Kurdish majority". About 70 Kurdish Members of Parliament were present at the first session of the Great National Assembly in Ankara; they were officially designated as the "MPs of Kurdistan". The Turkish representative, Ismet Pasha, declared at Lausanne: "The Kurds and the Turks are the essential components of the Republic of Turkey. The Kurds are not a minority but a nation; the government in Ankara is the government of the Turks as well as of the Kurds."   However, after the signing of the Treaty of Lausanne, Ankara's policy rapidly changed. The structures of the new state were designed wholly in accordance with Turkish interests. The Kurds' existence was denied. The Kurdish language, the practice of Kurdish culture, even the concepts of "Kurdish" and "Kurdistan" were forbidden. The Kemalist leadership paid not the slightest attention to the multi-cultural structure of Anatolia, which was in fact a mosaic of different ethnic groups. The keystone of their policy became the melting of other languages and cultures into the Turkish language and culture, thus creating "a unified nation". Article 39 of the Treaty of Lausanne, according to which the citizens of Turkey have the right to freely use their respective languages in all areas of life, was trampled upon, and the Kurdish language was totally forbidden in the educational system and the printed media. Speaking about the Kurds and criticizing the oppression of them was held to be a severe crime and was massively punished.   In 1925 the Kurds, led by Sheik Said, rose up against this policy. But this uprising was brutally suppressed; tens of thousands of Kurds were killed and driven into exile. There were more Kurdish uprisings in subsequent years, the major ones taking place in Ararat in 1930 and in Dersim in 1938. The Turkish state waged war in Kurdistan on a permanent basis.   After 1938, there was a relatively peaceful pause that lasted about 20 years. However, it is not surprising that the Kurds - who had no national rights and were being subjected to massive oppression, who were forced into poverty and ignorance, who saw all peaceful and legal avenues of political struggle closed off to them - once again began to arm themselves against the cruel oppression of the Turkish state. Since 1979, Turkey has ruled Kurdistan through military law, a State of Emergency, and a dirty war.   Similar developments unfolded in the other parts of Kurdistan. The Kurds living within the borders of Iraq, or southern Kurdistan, have also been resisting oppression since World War I. They staged uprisings that were led first by Sheik Mahmud Barzenci (1919-1923), then by Sheik Ahmed Barzani and his brother Mustafa Barzani (1933 and later). These uprisings also ended in defeat. But in Iraq, at no point was Kurdish identity denied. Moreover, because of the uprisings the Kurds were granted certain cultural rights. They were given schools, universities, radio broadcasts etc. In this part of Kurdistan, Kurdish culture is relatively well-developed.   The greatest Kurdish uprising in this part of Kurdistan began in 1961 under Mustafa Barzani and lasted until 1970. In 1970, the Kurds reached an agreement with the central government concerning an autonomous region. However, the government in Baghdad stalled the Kurds and ignored the conditions of the agreement. For this reason, the war broke out again in 1975. With several pauses, this struggle lasted until 1991.   The war against the Kurds has been expensive for Iraq. In order to halt Iran's support of the Kurds, the Saddam Hussein regime initially made territorial concessions to Iran. Then, to win back these areas, it started the destructive eight-year war against Iran which devastated Kurdistan. Iraq even used poison gas in its attacks on the Kurds. After this war ended, Iraq moved on to its invasion of Kuwait, with whose subsequent developments the reader is doubtless familiar.   Saddam Hussein suffered a massive defeat in his war against the allies. The Kurds were initially subjected to mass expulsion, but later a United Nations declaration created a security zone for them. The refugees returned to their homeland. In what is now known as "northern Iraq", i.e. southern Kurdistan, the Kurds created a parliament and a national government.   But the Iraqi problem has still not been solved today. The country is being subjected to a UN embargo, and the Iraqi Kurds are in an extremely difficult situation.   The state of Iran has practiced a policy of oppression against the Kurds similar to that of Turkey's Kemalist regime. After World War II, when Iran was occupied in the north by the Soviet Union and in the south by Great Britain, the Kurds were able to pause for breath and they quickly organized themselves. The Democratic Party of Kurdistan was founded and subsequently the Kurdish Republic of Mahabad was proclaimed. But soon thereafter the government in Tehran, with the political support of Great Britain and America, annihilated the Republic of Mahabad.   But the Kurdish people's resistance has not ceased. When the Shah's regime ended in 1978, this part of Kurdistan could once again enjoy freedom. Yet this phase did not last long either. It was soon followed by the attacks of the new regime of the mullahs. The armed resistance to this regime that began in 1979 is still continuing today.   In summary, the Kurdish people have continually resisted the cruel oppression and colonialization of them in these three major parts of Kurdistan, both before and after World War I, up to the present day. They have struggled to keep alive their identity, claim their national rights, and freely determine their own destiny. During this struggle, the Kurds have lost hundreds of thousands of their people and have been the victims of mass expulsions. Tremendous suffering has been inflicted on them. This is in fact a case of genocide. But unfortunately, neither the League of Nations nor the United Nations have lived up to their responsibilities in the face of our people's tragedy. They have merely been onlookers of these events.     Geography and Population   The number of Kurds in the four parts of Kurdistan and within the borders of the four countries that have divided it up between themselves totals about 35 million. This makes the Kurds, after the Arabs, Turks, and Persians, the fourth-largest nation in the Near East.   Kurdistan, which has since time immemorial been inhabited by the Kurds, has a territory of 500,000 square km, which is as large as that of France. In other words, the Kurds are not a minority in their country; they are the majority. The Kurdish question is not the problem of a minority of the population of this or that country; it is the question of a divided country and a nation. Like all other nations, the Kurds too have the right to self-determination.   The borders that divide Kurdistan are neither natural, economic, nor cultural borders. They are artificial borders that have been drawn against the will of the Kurdish people according to the interests of the forces that did the dividing and the balance of power. In many cases these borders have divided villages, towns, even families, and have had divisive and destructive effects on economic, social, and cultural life.   The largest part of Kurdistan, which in terms of both its population and its territory makes up about one-half of the total, lies in the north inside the state borders of Turkey. This part amounts to one-third of the total territory of Turkey, and includes more than twenty provinces in the "eastern and northeastern regions". Other parts, according to their size, are eastern Kurdistan (within the borders of Iran), southern Kurdistan (within the borders of Iraq), and Kurdish areas within the borders of Syria.   In all of these parts a large number of the inhabitants - between 80 and 90% - are Kurdish. A certain proportion of the Kurds have lived since earlier times, or because of the migrations and refugee movements of recent times, in other regions and in the large cities of these countries. If we count these as well, then about 18 to 20 million Kurds live within the borders of Turkey, 8 to 10 million in Iran, 5 million in Iraq, and 1.5 million in Syria.   About one-third of the labor migrants who have left Turkey in the past 20 to 30 years and come to the countries of Europe are Kurds. If we add to this the number of Kurds from Turkey and the other parts of Kurdistan who have fled to Europe in recent years for political and economic reasons, the number of Kurds living in European countries comes to about 1 million. Because of migration and refugee movements, Kurdish communities have also formed in North America and Australia.     Natural Resources and Economic and Social Structures   With regard to its mineral resources, Kurdistan is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Most of the zone extending from the Zagros mountain range to the Mediterranean, which has been known as the "Fertile Crescent" since early times, falls within Kurdistan.   Kurdistan is rich in agriculture. The plains between the mountain ranges, especially in the warm south, are well-suited to agriculture because of the composition of their soil and their favorable climatic conditions. The plateaus and mountain slopes have extremely fruitful meadowland. All types of grain, as well as high-quality fruit and vegetables, grow in the soil of Kurdistan. The Harran Plateau and the areas around Cezire and Mossul are grain reservoirs for the entire region.   Differences in temperature and elevation between the north and the south have resulted in the fact that Kurdistan has always been an important country for animal husbandry. Furthermore, Kurdistan is a reservoir of meat, butter, cheese, wool, and animal hides for the Middle East.   With regard to deposits of petroleum and other minerals, Kurdistan is a very wealthy country. A large part of Iraq's oil resources is in Kurdistan, in the regions around Kirkuk and Hanikin. A part of the important oil resources of Iran is also in Kurdistan, in the region around Kirmanshah. Turkey's oil resources are almost exclusively in Kurdistan (in the regions around Batman, Diyarbakir, and Adiyaman). Syria's oil resources are also mainly in Kurdistan, in the region around Cezire. Moreover, our land is rich in mineral resources such as iron, copper, chrome, coal, silver, gold, uranium, and phosphates.   Furthermore, there are rivers in Kurdistan that are at least as important, if not more important, than oil. The plateaus and mountains of Kurdistan, which are characterized by heavy rainfall and in winter a heavy coat of snow, are a water reservoir for the Near and Middle East. This is the source of the famous Tigris and Euphrates Rivers as well as numerous other smaller rivers. With their water, the Tigris and the Euphrates give life not only to the Mesopotamian plain and the southern part of Kurdistan but also to Iraq and Syria. These rivers, which flow down from heights of three to four thousand meters above sea level, are also very significant for the production of energy. Iraq and Syria have built numerous dams across these rivers and their tributaries. But the most important ones are a series of dams that were built by Turkey as part of the GAP project (Southeast Anatolia Project). The GAP project is still not complete, but it already supplies a significant proportion of Turkey's electrical-energy needs. When the project is finished, both the production of electricity and agricultural production, through the irrigation of this part of Kurdistan, will increase manyfold.   In antiquity and the Middle Ages, Kurdistan lay on the trade route between the Far East and Europe (the Silk and Spice Route). In recent history as well, this significance has continued. Interestingly enough, Kurdistan is today the most suitable region for the petroleum pipelines of Iraq and the Caucasus.   Kurdistan's extraordinary wealth and its strategic location are the most important reasons why our country is still divided and our people still subjected to so much suffering. For the abovementioned reasons, Kurdistan drew the attention of the Western colonizing states in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. The English, the French, and the Russians struggled for control over our country. Then, after World War I, they once again divided it up according to their own interests.   The Russians pulled out of the region after the October Revolution of 1917. The English and the French left the region as administrators after Syria and Iraq became independent. But their economic relations and their influence continue to exist in the region.   Not only the Republic of Turkey and Iran but also the newly formed national states of Syria and Iraq have done all that was necessary to keep control over those parts of Kurdistan that were granted to them and to assimilate and exterminate the Kurds. They have brutally beaten down Kurdish uprisings. In this regard they have in most cases cooperated and reached agreements among themselves. They have plundered the riches of Kurdistan and prevented it from developing economically, socially, and culturally.   For these reasons, our people must live in poverty in this wealthy country. The colonial conditions, the constant insecurity, and the war have prevented our country from developing its agriculture, trade, or industry. The capital that has been gained in Kurdistan has always flowed out of our country. The society has not been able to modernize, and the feudal social structures of the past have not been dissolved totally. The tribal social structure in the rural areas, the system of large-scale land ownership, the religious sects and the sheikdom associated with it have persisted. Even today, Kurdistan is ruled by a semi-feudal social system. There is no significant bourgeoisie or working class in the modern sense in its social system.   The dirty wars that are being waged by the colonial states in order to beat down the stubborn Kurdish partisan wars and popular rebellions - which have been going on since 1961 in southern Kurdistan (Iraq), since 1979 in eastern Kurdistan (Iran), and since 1984 in northern Kurdistan - have devastated our country. In view of this situation, in which everything is being brutally destroyed and people are fleeing en masse in fear for their lives, it would be senseless to expect any economic or social progress to take place.     Why Has the Kurdish Resistance Movement Been Unsuccessful to Date?   The twentieth century has witnessed the downfall of the worldwide system of colonialism and the foundation of new states in former colonies and dependent countries. Why have the Kurds, with their long history and a rich culture, not attained their freedom, even though they have continually waged resistance since the beginning of the nineteenth century and paid a high price for it?   There are both internal and external reasons for this. The feudal fragmentation within Kurdish society is one such internal reason. The tribal social structure, divisions between religious movements and confessions, and the institutions of large-scale land ownership and the sheikdom have always been obstacles to the unification of national forces. The medieval value structure of this system has resulted in the fact that a national consciousness has arisen only in part.   But these are not the essential reasons. We must not forget that many nations in Asia and Africa that have won their freedom have been backward with respect to their economic and social systems, in many cases even more backward than the Kurds. The true reasons that have prevented the Kurdish national movement from succeeding are external ones.   Initially the Kurds fought against two great empires, the Ottoman and the Persian Empires. The balance of power was not in favor of the Kurds, and they had no external support whatsoever. But the Balkan countries, for example, attained their independence through the support of powerful Western states such as Russia, Austria, England, and France. It was the English and the French that separated Arabia from the Ottoman Empire. These were the same powers that, in cooperation with the government in Ankara, carved up Kurdistan once again.   The Kurdish rebellions that followed World War I were opposed not only by Turkey and Iran but also by the French and the English, which had Syria and Iraq as part of their mandates. The English in particular used their own forces to put down the Kurdish national rebellion in Iraq.   After Syria and Iraq had gained their independence, the Kurdish national movement faced the alliance of these four states. One of the most detrimental effects of the division is that the territory of Kurdistan is surrounded by these four dividing states, i.e. by enemy forces. The Kurds have no connections with the outside world, either via land or sea. It is very difficult to set up contacts with the outside world. Even if friendly forces did exist which wanted to help the Kurds from the outside, there are no routes or points of access through which this support could reach Kurdistan directly. If the Kurdish national movement begins an armed rebellion in any of the parts of Kurdistan, it therefore requests a neighboring country to provide the necessary base areas or logistic support. But this neighboring country is still one of the four states that hold another part of Kurdistan in its control. None of them is interested in a Kurdish victory. These states merely play the Kurdish card against each other when they have problems with one another from time to time. This makes the Kurdish question, which is already complicated enough, even more complicated. Such relations are extremely problematic for the Kurdish national movement and occasionally bring Kurdish organizations into a situation where they are fighting against one another.   Aside from this, the Kurdish national movement has never received any substantial international support. The basic reason for this is that large and small states that are not directly involved in this issue put their own interests in the foreground and do not want to take a position that is opposed to the four states of the region (Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria).     What Is the Solution?   The Kurdish national movement has not been successful, for all of the reasons named above. On the other hand, the four states in question have not succeeded in their efforts to melt down the Kurds through assimilation or to eliminate them. On the contrary, Kurdish national consciousness has strengthened from year to year, overcome certain feudal obstacles, and acquired the character of a mass movement. The Kurdish national movement has organized itself and now includes all social classes and levels. Kurds in the various parts of Kurdistan have moved closer together. In all of these countries, Kurdish resistance has grown stronger; in the three largest parts of Kurdistan it has taken on the form of armed resistance which it has simply been impossible to eradicate.   It has also cost the oppressive countries dearly to deny Kurdish identity, deprive Kurds of their rights, and implement a policy of oppression against them. The governments of Turkey, Iraq, and Iran are compelled to wage continual war. This war consumes their financial resources and costs them human lives. In this respect Iraq, which has to deal with a de facto partition, is the most interesting example. But the situation in Turkey is no more rosy than it is in Iraq.   For Turkey, the policy of oppression against the Kurds is the greatest obstacle to democracy and domestic peace. One of the main causes of the frequent military coups in Turkey is the Kurdish question. The dirty war that has been waged for 11 years against the Kurdish people is consuming resources. Turkey's direct expenditures for the war amount to between 8 and 10 billion US dollars annually. The economy of Kurdistan has been totally crippled; agriculture, trade, and animal husbandry have collapsed.   A point has been reached at which the Kurdish question has precipitated a serious economic and political crisis in Turkey. Violence stretches over the entire social life of the country like a net. Chauvinistic nationalism and militarism are intensifying.   The government and official spokesman continue to blame the PKK - the so-called "handful of terrorists" - for the miserable situation. But the main responsibility of the present misery and all the suffering that has been inflicted on both peoples must be borne by the Turkish state itself. The point that has been reached today is the result of a wrong-headed policy that has been implemented for seventy years.   There is no doubt that this problem can not be solved by the army or the police. A peaceful solution is possible through dialogue and the recognition of Kurdish rights, and this is in the interests of both peoples. Thus peace and democracy could move into the country, and Turkey as a whole and Kurdistan in particular could enter into a phase of development.   During recent years, groups of reasonable people have been increasingly criticizing the policy that has been followed so intensely for the past seventy years, which has brought nothing to anybody and led the country ever deeper into an impasse. They have committed themselves to a peaceful solution. Groups of businessmen and workers, intellectuals and the media are increasingly allying themselves with this point of view. The international situation is also forcing Turkey toward a change of course.   In recent years, the Kurdish question has developed from a regional problem into an international one. In this connection, the UN resolution to protect the Iraqi Kurds is extremely significant. Turkey, which wants to be accepted into the European Union, must adapt its political and cultural life to European standards, and put into practical effect the international treaties which it has signed.   The conclusion I have reached on the basis of all I have presented so far is that the solution of the Kurdish question, despite the unfavorable present situation, is moving closer. In order to make a peaceful solution possible as soon as possible, the peace initiatives at the national and international levels must be strengthened.   The Socialist Party of Kurdistan, of which I am a member, advocates a peaceful and just solution. Despite all the oppression and provocations to which the Kurdish people has been subjected and is still being subjected, we have opted from the very beginning for political and peaceful methods of struggle. In our opinion, the peaceful coexistence of both peoples is possible, and therefore our party proposes a federation. We can find solutions that are similar to those developed in Spain, Belgium, or Switzerland. The same demands that Turkey is making for the hundred thousand Turks on Cyprus, it should also grant within its own borders to the Kurdish nation with its 20 million people.   But for this to happen, first of all there must be a bilateral ceasefire and negotiations must be initiated.   In our view, a peaceful solution to the problem is also possible in the other parts of Kurdistan. In all parts of Kurdistan, the existence and rights of the Kurdish people must be respected. Federal solutions based on equal rights must be devised.   The question of the unity of the Kurdish nation is a question of the future. I believe that the Middle East region will experience great changes in the future, as other regions have done. The despotic, oppressive, and primitive regimes of today will go, relations between the peoples of the region will improve, and there will be a phase of rapprochement, as is happening now in Europe. The borders will lose their significance. Artificial borders, which today divide Kurdistan with barbed wire and land mines, will then also disappear. -- Posted by gokturk on 1:49 am on Dec. 21, 2001 So what do you want? Will you get out of istanbul? Do you want a revenge? Revenge of what? Should China resume to the borders of Great Wall? Should Hungaria (Hungary) be given to Huns? (a.k.a Turks). You know, Finnish and Turkish are more closely related than with Kurdish. Should Turks be friends with Finish people then? No. Unfortunately money talks in this world. No more room to the fanatics like you. Your message will not be deleted from this forum. (i am admin). Instead, it will prove how brainwashed people struggle for NOTHING. It happened in Germany, It happened in Japan, it happened in Iraq, Afghanistan. Now it is happening in Turkey. I hope economy will recover and sick minded nationalism and blood wars will end. LISTEN:  I DID NOT CHOOSE MY NATIONALITY. YOU DID NOT EITHER.... WHY ARE YOU MAKING USE OF IT? regards... -- Posted by gokturk on 1:51 am on Dec. 21, 2001 Not to mention about your misinterpretations of the history. You have Armenian Blood on your hands.. remember.. -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 5:42 am on Dec. 21, 2001 Oh brother, here we go again. Our enemy pests are at it again Mehmet Bey. No matter what you do, you can't run away from them. I don't give a d*amn what happened in the past. Besides, I only believe my parent's version of history so I'm on your side:). -- Posted by Soprano on 9:42 am on Dec. 21, 2001 This is a fact, I'm not making this shit up. It's in the books, but you and people like you, ohh no they don't want to read a book written by different perspectives, views, they only read what's written in turkish, what they turkish authors say and believe this bullshit. We have a history as much as turkish history. Ok Good, I don't want you to delete it, I want people learn about true history, not what they were told. -- Posted by Arjon on 5:59 pm on Dec. 21, 2001 hi soprano.........inthe first Idon't know you male or famlae...anyway the important ..Iwanna ask you question because Idon't understand what you mean ....who is hurt people kurdish..??the turkish....just answer me yes or no ok....,I'm live in India and Idon't know what happend...and Iwanna ask you that happend in the past or enduring ....and Idon't see in the map country kurdstan ...where is it ?it is against gulf arab or where ....???anyway Iwish you can answer me .......byeeeeee:)) -- Posted by Imad on 6:16 pm on Dec. 21, 2001 Arjon you can't find map's kurdstan ......becouse them haven't country ......inthe Iraq kurdish and turkey and syria......and them want be to their country but the three countries don't want that.........I'm just know that .....!!!and Idon't know there another say from soprano........???bye Arjontiy....:)) -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 12:40 am on Dec. 22, 2001 Arjon, Hope, in their minds, Kurdistan exists. I guess they made up their own map. Look people, there were countless injustices throughout history. In this case obviously Turks were the victors against the Kurds. Even today we have the Israelis occupying Palestinians lands who have been displaced and dealt with inhumanely for many decades. Does the world even blink an eye? -- Posted by Soprano on 1:54 am on Dec. 22, 2001 Arjon, what the fuck are you saying? I didn't understand a shit you've said. If you listen to Turkish politicians these days, if you read the Turkish newspapers, if you listen to the commentators on Turkish TV then you can not avoid becoming enraged. Apart from a few columnists who have retained their personalities and healthy understanding of people, they distort the facts in an incredible way and by doing so attempt to fool the public at home and abroad. They always say the same, as if they are programmed to do so. “Turkey has been fighting terrorism for years but we have always been unable to convince Europe and America of this. Hopefully they will now understand us better”. Do such words have anything to do with the reality? Have Turkey really been fighting terrorism or has it been more against the innocent Kurdish nation whose land they occupy, whose rights they deny and who they mercilessly oppress and exploit? To ban 20 million Kurds (this refers only to the Kurdish people from North Kurdistan, i.e. that part within Turkish borders) from reading and writing in their native language, to sing in their own language, to speak, to name things – what kind of fight against terror is this? And, about the E.U.; Turkey have not completed their homework set by the EU. There are no efforts from them to conform to the Copenhagen Criteria. The EU must remain true to its principles. As long as Turkey do not do their homework, then there must be no entry negotiations with them. Instead of trickery, we would like to see Turkey taking sincere steps towards democratisation and the resolution of the Kurdish question. We propose that the following must be achieved within the near future: 1.  A democratic constitution which guarantees the rights to freedom of expression, conscience and organisation. 2.  The annulment of anti-democratic laws and regulations. 3. Guarantees to the right of assembly. 4. Recognition of the existence of the Kurds and constitutional guarantees of Kurdish rights and identity. 5.  Freedom for Kurdish political parties and the open discussion of the Kurdish question. 6. Lifting of the suppression of Kurdish language and culture. Freedom to publish and broadcast on radio and TV in Kurdish. 7. The commencement of education and training in the Kurdish language. 8. Lifting of the states of emergency and the village protection system. 9. Providing compensation and facilitating the return of the millions of displaced people whose towns and villages have been destroyed over the past 15 years. Such steps are necessary for democratisation in Turkey and for achieving a state of peace. In this way, the Copenhagen Criteria would also be fulfilled. We announce to the world that we that we will oppose this cruelty. We will persist with our fight until the Kurdish people achieve all their legitimate rights. The Kurdish people have the right, like all other nations of the world, to determine their own fate, to live freely in their own country, to decide for themselves on their own issues and problems, to use their country’s resources for their own use, to be able to live their culture, to continue to develop and to be able to apply modern science and technology. We are of the opinion that the conditions must be created for a democratic referendum, giving the Kurdish people the opportunity to vote for either a federation, a confederation, independence or any other solution. Economically, the Kurds if they were granted such an option would end up with a small land locked country, with a very weak and poor economy unless the Oil City of Kirkuk becomes part of state. In spite of that, this will be a Kurdish state and the Kurds will welcome it and cherish it. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, We are determined to live as decent people in a free country, and we will reach our goal. One day everyone, even the oppressors that rule Turkey, will see and recognize this.   -- Posted by Arjon on 4:35 am on Dec. 22, 2001 Iwanna say something to you if you want talk with people you have be polit even them can listen to you ..!!!Idon't know why you have write (fuck and shit)??Iwasn't know who is kurdish becouse I'live in away country and Iwanted know your people .....becouse Iresepect all the people muslims in the world and Iwanted listen to you cos I'm really don't know your people and before Tarkan Iwas'nt too know turkey .I'm live in away country to you .........but now Idon't wanna know anything about you and your country if all your people like you ..cos you don't resepect anybody here and you assial me think me stole your country !!!Iwas wrong when asked you ...??Idon't know why always wrong and talk with strange people ..!!!...and Idon't read what you wrote ...just first line and felt sick ....!! -- Posted by Soprano on 10:54 am on Dec. 22, 2001 get the fuck out of here faggot! Don't read my shit than. I don't understand what the h*ll is your stupid ass saying anyway. Don't reply again, aight? Now, step! -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 5:06 am on Dec. 23, 2001 Arjon, you are so adorable:) Don't get involved in the Kurdish politics because it's nothing but propoganda against the Turks. This person is maybe 1% of the Kurdish population who complain iabout Turkiye's human rights and the other 99% are very happy:) I'll see you on our page sweety. -- Posted by gotturk on 1:50 am on Dec. 25, 2001 Terms and conditions of service Please ---------- EDITED BY WEBMASTER -------- DEAR SOPRANO=GOTTURK Your IP number shows that you are the same person. Please STOP flooding the forum. If you want respect to your postings, be kind. This is a democratic forum. We do not delete posts unless they include extreme violence and cursing to a particular person. Use the forum properly. If not, That's your choice. Shows your actual face. Your IP IS: (for both Soprano and gotturk) 65.34.41.13 pomew-1-65-34-41-83.pompano.net Fort Lauderdale (probably) FLORIDA Regards... TURKCE: arkadaslar, benim adımı alaya alan (gotturk) ismiyle yazı yazan Soprano arkadaşımızdır. Kendisinin böyle birşey yapmasını beklemezdim. Ancak "HAM Meyvaymış" . Sağlık olsun. İyi muhabbetler -- Posted by webmaster on 10:34 pm on Dec. 26, 2001 SOPRANO, You were mentioning about the books. Can you give me the names? I have read : Kurdish War (David Adams) 1954, Cradle Of Mankind (By british, dated 1911 and 1922 two volumes also tells A LOT about the armenian issue) Life in Asiatic Turkey (1879) Did you read anything besides recent nationalist publishings written by NORMAL people (not like you) You are cursing, flooding the forum. How do you ask for a respect to Kurdish people if they are like you? You should be representing Kurdish here. Shame... By the way, Arjon, Kurdish is spoken in eastern india somewhere as well. It was very strange to me since it'S A dialect of Persian. Do you have access to any such info from india? Regards.. Webmaster -- Posted by Arjon on 8:55 pm on Dec. 27, 2001 sorry ,webmaster.idon't understand what you mean????:biggrin:sorry ...:)) -- Posted by Arjon on 8:56 pm on Dec. 27, 2001 sorry ,webmaster.idon't understand what you mean from your question????:biggrin:sorry ...:)) -- Posted by gicikbebe on 1:33 pm on Dec. 28, 2001 Kurds are very resourceful people. They can offer many benefits and contributions to the Turkish society. Their males can work the mines, build roads e.t.c. The females can cook, clean and be used as sex slaves. We don't have to pay them. They can help re-build the Turkish economy. Afterwoods, we just kill all the males ant bury them in the mountains. We keep the young females until they get too old. Brilliant idea eh ? what do you think. ? -- Posted by Arjon on 12:35 pm on Dec. 30, 2001 maybe Ihave expilan something...my father Russian and his origion from Kazakhstan ,and my mother Indian,.....that's mean I'm not indian..:))I'm Russian..:)) -- Posted by webmaster on 8:46 pm on Jan. 1, 2002 Ok then. I thought you are in india (or indian) now. By the way, you are probably wrong here: Regardless of your father or mother you are half indian half russian. Having your "father" as the determining ethnicity sounds wrong to me. Like, If a Turkish "man" marries with a russian "woman" the result would be what? Turkish? yes but 50%. Not 51% :) No hard feelings. I just wanted to put my comment on this. For example, a foreign woman can apply for a turkish citizenship if she marries with a turkish man. But a foreign man cannot apply for a turkish citizenship if he marries with a turkish woman. The parliament is about to change this old fashioned rule i guess. (it's probably due to the complexity of defining the military obligation) webmaster NOTE: the language of this website is chosen to be english since the main target is the worldwide audience. It's not a simple mp3 download site (which would be much easier for me to provide) with hot junkies. :) -- Posted by Arjon on 9:09 am on Jan. 2, 2002 you right,Ilive now in india with my mother...:))and Ithink the children have be like the father...for that ..Isee my self Russian more than Indian...:)) -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 5:26 am on Jan. 3, 2002 I disagree with you Arjon, you are half Russian/half Indian. You are not 100% Russian. Let me ask you something, do you resemble the Indian or Russian side? I bet you look more Indian:). -- Posted by Arjon on 2:41 pm on Jan. 3, 2002 maybe I'm resemble Indian more.but my heart Russian 100%......::cool:...and I'm so chuffed for that...:biggrin:and If Iwant marry in the future ...:biggrin:Ihave marry girl her heart Russisn...like me :biggrin:. I'm at least admit in my half Indian...remember Amal..,she was forget her half European...!!and say always I'm arabian 100 %..:biggrin:may be tha Arab more genial for that she is love them more...:confused: -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 2:50 pm on Jan. 3, 2002 Amal is a different case. She lives in the country of her father - not her mother. Obviously she likes the culture she lives in and does not want to be European. You on the other hand who've never been to Russia live in your mother's homeland so you should feel more close to her country. Besides why would you want to live in Russia? Everyone there wants to get out. There's no future there for anyone, believe me I know because my grandparents have gone to visit after more than 50 years and they said that it's worst than when they left - the government has done absolutely nothing for the people. And besides they have terrible cold weather. At least in India it's warm.:) (Edited by FILIZ2 at 9:52 pm on Jan. 3, 2002) -- Posted by EMRA on 1:17 am on Jan. 4, 2002 Ithink Amal ,born in Germany...and lived it some years...!!but i'm not so sure from that... Arjon , are you lived in Russia..?? -- Posted by Sogk on 5:48 am on Jan. 5, 2002 vay vay vay... Gercekten YAZIKLAR OLSUN HEPINIZE>>!!! Siz nasil Turk millettisiniz.. Bu forumu oncelikle acani ayipliyorum.. boyle boluculuk olmaz.. Turkiye forumu lakabinde bir forum acarsin olup bitter... ve sonra bu Foruma Yazan butun arkadaslarimizi ozulerek dusunculerini ayipliyorum .. burada Kurd ve Turk Ayrimiciligi yapmaniz gercekten yanlis.. ve Nickname Filiz olan kisi 100 % Kurdleri karsi oldudugu ortada yazdigi seyler..gercekten uzgunc verici.. Ve gelelim saygi deger Webmastere .. Siz nasil Kurdler hakkinda kotu yorum yapa biliyorsunuz.. sizin bu forumda Social kisi olarak yazmanizlazim.. BAYA>>>>OZULDUM>>SIZIN DUSUNCELERINIZDEN... -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 3:11 pm on Jan. 5, 2002 Ben PKK'lilere ve Turkiyeye zarar getirenlere karsiyim. -- Posted by Sogk on 3:35 am on Jan. 6, 2002 Filiz onlara bende karsiyim ama gecmiste yazdigin sozlerde Kurdler kelimesini kulanmistin, onun icin ben seni elestirdim.. Ben kendim Turkum ama Kurdler hakkinda yanlis seyler lutfen konusulmasin... onlarda bizim vatandasimizdir... -- Posted by Arjon on 7:55 am on Jan. 6, 2002 Emra,Ilived just two years there.and Ilove everything there,the people the children the flower :biggrin:the street ...:))everything there beautiy ....... Filiz ,yes Russia so cold but the Russisn their hearts so warm..!!!do you know what imean???they know what's mean word LOVE...!!:)) -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 10:15 am on Jan. 6, 2002 bu kürdistanı kurma hayalinden birgün vazgeçilse ne güzel olacak -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 4:32 pm on Jan. 6, 2002 Arjon, I don't know about the one's in Russia but I don't like the Russians that have emigrated here in New York. They are loud, obnoxious people without morals. They get all kinds of government hand-outs (welfare, medicare, food stamps) whereas immigrants in the past had to work to make a living. They're very good at cheating and using the American system to benefit themselves. -- Posted by Arjon on 12:46 pm on Jan. 7, 2002 Filiz,why you said that about my people..:)??maybe you wrong and who talk about them not Russian...I'm sure .. and if you just come any site Russian they will say to you Welcame ............not out ,don't back again..here:)) kisses to you my friend ...:)) -- Posted by webmaster on 12:28 am on Jan. 8, 2002 Quote: from Sogk on 5:48 am on Jan. 5, 2002 vay vay vay... SOgk:Gercekten YAZIKLAR OLSUN HEPINIZE>>!!! Siz nasil Turk millettisiniz.. webmaster: Bi kere burdaki herkes Türk değil. Sogk:Bu forumu oncelikle acani ayipliyorum.. boyle boluculuk olmaz.. webmaster: Forumu Soprano denen sonra da gotturk ismiyle spam atan arkadaş (floridalıdır kendileri) orman taşlamak için açmıştı. Ben de özgürlük adına silmedim. Küfür edilmediği sürece herşeyi konuşabilmek lazım diye düşünüyorum. "Ne biçim Türk" olmakla bir ilgisi olmadığını düşünüyorum. Sogk:Turkiye forumu lakabinde bir forum acarsin olup bitter... ve sonra bu Foruma Yazan butun arkadaslarimizi ozulerek dusunculerini ayipliyorum .. burada Kurd ve Turk Ayrimiciligi yapmaniz gercekten yanlis.. ve Nickname Filiz olan kisi 100 % Kurdleri karsi oldudugu ortada yazdigi seyler..gercekten uzgunc verici.. webmaster:Çeşitli arkadaşlar yanlış şeyler yazmış olabilir. "üzüldüm" demek yerine açıklama getirmerk lazım. "forum" ne için var ki zaten? Sizin bu mesajınıza ben de "üzüldüm" diye cevapo verebilirdim. Ama olmaz. düşüncemi açıklamam lazım. Sogk:Ve gelelim saygi deger Webmastere .. Siz nasil Kurdler hakkinda kotu yorum yapa biliyorsunuz.. webmaster:Ben ne zaman kötü yorum yapmışım? Bir başkası ile karıştırdınız. Yukarıda bir arkadaş dalga geçmiş, o da zaten ardından kara mizah yaptığını belli ediyor. Sogk:sizin bu forumda Social kisi olarak yazmanizlazim.. webmaster:??? Ben bu forumda sizden biri olarak yazabilirim. Neticede ben de insanım. Ayrıca gerektiği zaman küfür vb sorunları çözmeye çalışırım. Saygılar webmaster BAYA>>>>OZULDUM>>SIZIN DUSUNCELERINIZDEN... -- Posted by webmaster on 12:33 am on Jan. 8, 2002 Alıntı yapayım derken kendi yazdıklarım araya karışmış. dikkatli okursanız memnun olurum yukarıdaki mesajı. webmaster -- Posted by webmaster on 12:47 am on Jan. 8, 2002 Quote: from FILIZ2 on 4:32 pm on Jan. 6, 2002 Arjon, I don't know about the one's in Russia but I don't like the Russians that have emigrated here in New York. They are loud, obnoxious people without morals. They get all kinds of government hand-outs (welfare, medicare, food stamps) whereas immigrants in the past had to work to make a living. They're very good at cheating and using the American system to benefit themselves. FILIZ, first of all Arjon is comparing the conditions of Russia with India. Not US. I believe he is right and i understand him. I've been to Kırgısiztan and Kazakistan and those places were beautiful. Cities as well. Aside from the Russian oppression and lost lives during Soviet times, they were good. But it has fallen as a big rock. Yet they still have a lot of energy and resources available, both natural and human. Population problem is not present. FILIZ is right about the Russian immigrants in US. It sounds somewhat like Turkish/Kurdish presence in EU countries. Living out of welfare and making babies to get more money. right? It's a typical "humgry man" behaviour. A hungry man goes to all you can eat restaurant and geez. What happens. ?? It takes couple of weeks for him to realize that food is available anytime and there is no point in fulling his stomach upto the maximum point. Then he enjoys the food. Some nationalities are more predominant to others when it comes to marriage. It also depends on the couple and the religion. Best regards Webmaster -- Posted by Sogk on 2:49 am on Jan. 8, 2002 selam Webmaster.. Bazi konular hakkinda dusuncelerini belirtigin icin sagol.. Ben Kendim senin onceki yazinda yazdigin kelimeyi aciklamamisim benim yazimda onun icin simdi sana suraya yazdigini yazayim..: You are cursing, flooding the forum. How do you ask for a respect to Kurdish people if they are like you? buradaki respect sozunu gercekten bence yanlis kulanmisin yada sen bir Kurd dusmanisin benim gozumde, sen bir kisinin hali durumunami bakiptum Kurd vatandaslarimiz hakkinda karar veriyorsun.. Boyle sey olmaz bence.. Bunu ifade etmek istemistim.. cevabini kisa zamanda beklerim.. saygilarla koray -- Posted by Imad on 6:27 am on Jan. 8, 2002 Arjon ,I'm sure all the Russian Great ...!!!becouse you belong to them....:)) -- Posted by EMRA on 6:27 pm on Jan. 8, 2002 Arjon,not all turkish site like this ,and not all people turkish like who is said to you (don't back again!!) I'm sure if you come any another turkish site .......they will say to you too welcome.......we hospitable people and respect all the countries .....muslims or christian and if you visit us will know that verygood :)) welcome Arjon in our site anytime anywhere.......:))from heart ...:)) your friend Emra...:)) -- Posted by Arjon on 7:18 pm on Jan. 8, 2002 Iknow you Emra.........and Iknow how you good :))from you and Filiz:))maybe she is hard little and hate mypeople :))....but you all nice Ican see that...:)) Iremember when Iwas new in our old page ,Isaw people say to you something Iwasn't understand it...they were said (can't anyperson know you and think people turkish not good)now understand what them were mean:))and Iwas see to you many friends arabian and christian and turkish .......Iwas wonder why you??why all them if you don't write anyday isaw them always say(where are you Emra??:)) Iknow now why...:))becouse you have big heart....:))and Iwish really visit turkey and see you all.....that's will be so nice ..:)).....good bless to you myfriend...:)) kisses Indian ......kisses Russian to you..:)) -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 4:42 am on Jan. 9, 2002 Imad, wait until I ship out all the Russians here in New York to you in Syria, then you'll change your mind:). I think you guys misunderstand what I write. They are unappreciative and are always looking for handouts. That includes the Turkic people from there because they picked up their mannerisms and culture also. They don't know how hard people work here -- like robots. But my biggest complaint is how they cheat the American system. They know all the laws on government assistance  before they even learn to speak English. I could go on and on but you  cannot comprehend what I'm talking about unless you live here. -- Posted by Arjon on 3:27 pm on Jan. 9, 2002 Filiz,please stop..:)Ithink that's enough..:)) webmaster Iforget say to you thanks for eveything....:)) oh mysweet Imad.....thanks......and they really great like what you said........you right dear and don't believe anything ok ..............just me .......ME  ...anyway Itrust in you .........bye now dear....:)) -- Posted by EMRA on 3:40 am on Jan. 10, 2002 thanks Arjon, you are welcome anytime...:) -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 4:43 am on Jan. 10, 2002 Emra, why are you so nice to Arjon? Don't you see everytime he write he has a note on the bottom that says "I hate Emra"??:) :) -- Posted by Arjon on 2:34 pm on Jan. 11, 2002 that's so enjoy if you love person and he is hate you ..:biggrin:for that he is enjoy in that...:biggrin:haaahaaahaaa . No,Iwas just kidding ...:)he is too write that....and Ilove him....:biggrin: (Edited by Arjon at 10:33 pm on Jan. 11, 2002) -- Posted by Sogk on 12:12 am on Jan. 12, 2002 Selam Millet... Arjon sen hep sevgiden bahsediyorsun... Ve nasil bir sevgi ve ask oluyor bu Internet Sevgisimi oluyor yada Bir uydurma Sevgisimi oluyor... ve Filiz e gercekten katiliyorum... selamlar koray.. -- Posted by Arjon on 2:24 am on Jan. 12, 2002 for anybody don't speak turkish...:he is said he is love meeeeeee so much.....haaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa :biggrin:... -- Posted by Sogk on 4:10 am on Jan. 12, 2002 hey Arjon what in h*ll are you talking about... you think you are funny..?? you acting like a child... please answer my question........ -- Posted by Arjon on 7:11 am on Jan. 12, 2002 and you think your self myfriend even you can talk with me As you like..!!!Idon't know even who is you ..??and Idon't understand your language ....the turkish....!!! Idon't know right now why always Ichance strange people...!!!..... (Edited by Arjon at 9:42 pm on Jan. 12, 2002) -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 7:12 am on Jan. 12, 2002 Sogk, heralde simdiye kadar onun Tanju oldugunu anlamistirsin. Nedense tanjularin sevgiye ve sevilmelerine cok ihtiyaci oluyor. Kiz veya erkek olsada ona fark etmiyor. Bide babasiz buyudugu icin acincak hali var bence. Emra'ya NOT: Emra bunu sakin ona tercume etme cunku cok cabuk kiriliyor.:) -- Posted by Sogk on 3:15 am on Jan. 13, 2002 Kendisi demekki Turk degil ve Turkce dilini bilmiyor... evet bence acinacak bir halde kendisi... fazla muhatap olmayim ben onunla.... -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 1:52 am on Jan. 18, 2002 kırılgan olduğu doğru.. bir sözümde hemen alındı ama babasız büyüdüğüne üzüldüm. -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 2:01 am on Jan. 18, 2002 a message for arjon: if you find us strange and dont like us, you dont need to come here.. s.og.k thought that you were turkish and talked turkish but you understood wrong. well its not his fault, because this is a turkish music forum so dont get angry.. -- Posted by Sogk on 5:40 am on Jan. 18, 2002 Thanks for supporting me Tantrum... Gercekten sana katiliyorum.. -- Posted by Imad on 7:27 am on Jan. 18, 2002 tantrum ..you so late .....becouse he is leave the site maybe from week ...!!!!Iknow that ..so disappointed to you becouse you so enjoy when you say the foreigner OUT ..!!!anyway I'lived in turkey two years ..and Ihave seen some people there like you .....but he wasn't know before turkey ...and he know it just from this site ...were you think he is now will take opinion about the turkish..??Iknow you don't care .......but Iwanted you know that .............maybe Emra and Filiz just enough prove ....in the people turkish so hospitable ....and Iwanted you know something he is in the first wasn't wanted stay here but he did that just for his friends .......... (Edited by Imad at 7:28 am on Jan. 18, 2002) -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 11:53 pm on Jan. 18, 2002 well i dont care if he left or not.. what does he think himself? a great person? he just thinks himself and wants people to sorry for him. if i leave this site, would anybody care for me? you didnt need to give me his history. he doesnt need to be disappointed all the time. everyday in school people say bad words to me but i dont care.. one more thing: write good english... -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 12:28 am on Jan. 19, 2002 yani dimi arkadaşlar herkesin her sözüne alınılmaz ki. ya bide başkalarına kendisini acındırmak için alınılmaz çünkü bu devirde bu kadar kolay alınana kimse acımaz. top mu bu deyip geçerler. -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 7:39 am on Jan. 19, 2002 Tantrum why are you criticizing Imad's English?? For someone who is 15 years old and lives in Syria and probably is learning the language in school I think he has a pretty good command of the language. I'd like to see if you can learn to speak his language. Besides, corresponding with others in a site like this will help him improve his verbal communication as I am trying to do with the Turkish language. Please don't discourage him by being critical. -- Posted by Imad on 12:41 pm on Jan. 19, 2002 Idon't blame the people in your school .......!!!and Arjon don't need to be with bad person here ...and Idon't see one reason here make him stay ....!!!....and we all not sorry for him..!!!Ilaugh when Iread wrod sorry ..!!!you think him die .....!!!!and I'm glad becouse he leave it ....!!!and he and me want leave it not for you or for sogk ....!!!!just for our friend Amal ...becouse she don't wanna write here ...and we all wanna be with her .......don't think in the world one person will wanna do some thing for you .....or will affect for you ....!!!becouse you Nothing ....!!!......take care my dear ....:) -- Posted by gicikbebe on 6:18 pm on Jan. 19, 2002 kesin lan. ne sacma sapan thread bu ? -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 1:42 am on Jan. 20, 2002 bak filizcim bende ingilizceyi okulda öğrendim ve öğrenmeye başladığım ilk yıl bile böyle kötü grammar hataları yapmadım. Ayrıca ben italyancada biliyorum ve biz matematik, fizik, biyoloji, kimya derslerini italyanca olarak işliyoruz. Ne kadar zor olduğunu tahmin bile edemezsin.. -- Posted by gicikbebe on 6:05 am on Jan. 20, 2002 aferin. ne ileri zekali. massallah zeka fiskiriyo -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 10:05 pm on Jan. 20, 2002 Evet Tantrum, ama senin yasin kac? O daha cok genc, muhakkak yavas yavas oda ingilizcesini ilerletir. -- Posted by Sogk on 3:56 am on Jan. 22, 2002 gercekten yazik... Filiz olmayacak laf ediyor Imad sende destek oluyorsun... benim ismimi kulaniyor ve beni konusuna karistiriyor.. boyle sey olurmu.. ve ingilizcesi gercekten cok zayif.. hic birsey anlasilmiyor... ama Filiz soyle o Imade benim ismimi birdaha oylesine kulanmasin... ben  kendisi ile muhatap olmak istemiyorum.. -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 4:31 am on Jan. 23, 2002 Anlamadim Sogk nasil olmacak laf ediyormusum. Ve Imad senin ismini nasil kullaniyor? Simdiye kadar sana kotu bir laf soyledimi? -- Posted by Sogk on 4:50 am on Jan. 23, 2002 selam Filiz...yanlis okudun yazimi galiba lutfen tekrar oku Filiz ben Imadi soyluyorum... -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 12:00 am on Jan. 25, 2002 17 yaşındayım filiz -- Posted by iloveIsrael on 4:34 pm on Aug. 14, 2002 Quote: from FILIZ2 on 4:32 pm on Jan. 6, 2002 Arjon, I don't know about the one's in Russia but I don't like the Russians that have emigrated here in New York. They are loud, obnoxious people without morals. They get all kinds of government hand-outs (welfare, medicare, food stamps) whereas immigrants in the past had to work to make a living. They're very good at cheating and using the American system to benefit themselves. sorry to push this thread up..... iam from Russia and i can honestly say that about 50% of immigrants are exactly how you described them (excluding me, ofcourse:)) and about the Kurds, i took a Middle East history course, and i read about them, and from what i gather, the Kurds have always been mistreated (including by Turkey) and i pity them and wish they could have a separate state. -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 9:16 am on Aug. 16, 2002 If you're from Russia then how come your nick isn't ILOVERUSSIA? Why Israel??? -- Posted by iloveIsrael on 1:36 pm on Aug. 16, 2002 Quote: from FILIZ2 on 9:16 am on Aug. 16, 2002 If you're from Russia then how come your nick isn't ILOVERUSSIA? Why Israel??? Just because you come from a certain country doesnt mean u have to love it.......Many Israelis came from Arab/persian  countries......but iam sure none of them love Syria, Yemen, Morocco, Egypt, Iraq and Iran I love Israel because its the only moral, civilized, productive country in the Middle East -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 8:21 am on Aug. 17, 2002 If it's such a moral, civilized and productive country then what are you doing in the USA?? -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 8:22 am on Aug. 17, 2002 If it's such a moral, civilized and productive country then what are you doing in the USA?? -- Posted by iloveIsrael on 1:40 pm on Aug. 17, 2002 Quote: from FILIZ2 on 8:22 am on Aug. 17, 2002 If it's such a moral, civilized and productive country then what are you doing in the USA?? The U.S. is also a civilized country,so I love living here, but I can't visit Israel because i dont want my body parts to end up sprayed on the pavement:) -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 2:33 pm on Aug. 17, 2002 Yeah right!! All the Jews from Russia who have emigrated to Israel use that route to make the USA their final destination. The Israelis accept them so they can increase their population since the Arabs increase at a much faster pace. I've heard from disgruntled Russians who have emigrated that their system is no different than the Russian system where they have the kibbutz -- like collective farms in Russia. Also they wouldn't be able to get away with abusing the welfare system as they do in the USA. In other words -- this is a wonderful country for swindlers. -- Posted by webmaster on 4:43 pm on Sep. 9, 2002 MORAL? CIVILIZED? ISRAEL? COME ON!!! THE GUYS ARE BRAINWASHED TOTALLY. THINKING THAT THEY ARE SPECIAL PEOPLE OF GOD? ISn'T THIS TRUE??? tell me? Quote: from iloveIsrael on 1:36 pm on Aug. 16, 2002 Quote: from FILIZ2 on 9:16 am on Aug. 16, 2002 If you're from Russia then how come your nick isn't ILOVERUSSIA? Why Israel??? Just because you come from a certain country doesnt mean u have to love it.......Many Israelis came from Arab/persian  countries......but iam sure none of them love Syria, Yemen, Morocco, Egypt, Iraq and Iran I love Israel because its the only moral, civilized, productive country in the Middle East -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 12:22 am on Sep. 10, 2002 People here don't like to discuss politics but I can't help myself. Let's face it the World Trade Center would still be standing today if  America (whose politicians are controlled by Jewish lobbyists) didn't support Israel. The Jewish media attribute it to  Moslem fundamentalists being anti-west,etc. etc. but a limited number of intelligent people know that it is due to American policy in that region. If it had to do with being anti-west then how come they didn't attack all the other western countries? Why America?? As if we don't have enough wars going on now Bush wants to attack Iraq by creating fictitious accusations  (this I'm sure is also due to Israel's pressure).  He's also trying to divert the American people's attention  from his failure to capture Bin Laden and bad economy. But I am hopeful that there will be a time when things completely will turn the other way around. Webmaster, burasinin gun tarihini update yapabilirmisiniz luften?? -- Posted by Grand LS on 10:46 pm on Nov. 27, 2002 Verrrrrrrry interesting thread! Several topic being discussed under one post! LoL. As for the Iraq issue, ever since the Gulf War, the Iraqi ppl have been suffering really badly. Question is, why should the ppl suffer? An attack on Iraq is not only gonna affect Iraq, but also the neighboring countries. And yes, I agree with your point about diverting attention, Filiz2. As for the issue regarding Israel, the US Congress is funded by Jews and so is the Media. The US is made to look like it owes something to Israel and has been on the US's shoulders since 1947. Becuase of this, the USA has been targets of fanatical killers in the Middle East. And sadly, becuase of Israel, I dont think Americans feel safe anywhere in the world. -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 12:42 am on Nov. 30, 2002 ulan millet politikayla kafayı bozdu gene iyi mi.. bu gidişle hepimiz gebereceğiz ama dur bakalım.. -- Posted by FILIZ2 on 7:07 am on Dec. 1, 2002 Grand LS -  if only we had more intelligent Americans like you maybe the government wouldn't get away with  feeding lies to its people. Since 9/11 more people have started to question and voice their opinion about the government's policies - especially in universities. Tantrum sen politikaya karsisan o zaman neden Turkiyedeki hukumet hakkinda birsuru yazilar  yazdin?? O da politika sayilmiyormu?? -- Posted by TaNtRuM on 5:41 pm on Dec. 3, 2002 yasak mı -- Posted by adil42 on 6:41 pm on June 22, 2003 Kürdü, lazi, çerkezi bir agacin dallari. Bu agacin adi Türk Daha çoktur kollari Agaca balta vuran Ermeninin, Avrupanin ve Yunanlarin dölleri -- Posted by alpergalip on 11:35 am on Aug. 30, 2005 THE BEST KURD IS A DEAD KURD... I really cant understand why Kurdish bastards still moving to Istanbul or to Izmir since they hate so much from Turkey. I dont understand why they dont get fuck out off from our beautiful country. We allow them to live on their lands... Just dont touch us... You bastards, theifs, killers... Anyone who spend only 1 week with Kurds can easily say that Kurds are not humans, much more dangerous than animals... THE BEST KURD IS A DEAD KURD... FUCK ALL THE KURDS... (Edited by alpergalip at 11:38 am on Aug. 30, 2005) -- Posted by timescion on 2:08 am on Jan. 25, 2006 evet katiliyorum, kurtler problem cikarttikca turklere huzur yok , es hakli vatandaslik teklif ediyoruz hayir diyorlar . sonuc olarak belli ki azmislar ya mevlalarini yada belalarini bulacaklar , yardimizla ikisinide buldurabiliriz sanirim -- Posted by Amir Mansour on 7:01 am on Oct. 31, 2006 I wish to find a historical survey in Kurdish maqam music and the great Kurd artists and their rare recordings in Turkey, Iraq and Iran. Amir